Collings Idiosyncratic sound

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Haasome
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Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1405Post Haasome
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:58 am

I know most on this forum are Collings fans (like me) and wanted to ask you about your experience with what seems like a Collings idiosyncrasy. I’ve been tempted to post this in the past, but 1) I didn’t want people to obsess 2) didn’t want to inspire brand bashing. But then I figured I would post it here to see if other Collings enthusiasts have had similar experiences.

Form a G chord with your left hand middle finger on the 3rd fret of the low E string. And hit just the Low E string hard with a flat pick. Do you hear a faint rattle that “seems” like it emanates from the bridge area?

This will help emphasize the sound — move your left hand middle finger off the fret toward the middle of the fretting area and reduce the finger pressure until it is the minimum you need to get a clear note. And hang your head so your ear is near the sound hole in a quiet room. (I know this seems crazy, but it’s just so you identify the sound.) I’ve been able to recognize this “rattle-type” noise on every Collings I’ve tried. I only happens when striking the Low E hard, and only happens when fingering the 3rd fret. However, it doesn’t happen if I put a capo on the first fret. And if I tune down #5 A string to a G to match the #6 string pitch — it doesn’t produce the sound. So it doesn’t seem to be related to resonance of that frequency.

The reason I’m thinking about this? I’ve just had my New Collings set up and have been super focused on what the guitar is doing. I didn’t say a word to my luthier about this when I dropped the guitar off. However he offered the unsolicited comment that the guitar sounded great, but he could hear the faint sound on occasion and said “you can’t believe how many hours I’ve spent chasing down the root of this type of issue. But it really seems impossible to solve.”

Since it happens so infrequently, is so minor and because I’m focused on playing music and not isolating sounds — it doesn’t bother me when I play and doesn’t diminish my appreciation & joy of what Collings provides. However, I figured I’d ask the dealer who sells a ton of Collings guitars about their experience & to get their take. We had a fun & lengthy exchange about this. They too have noticed the noise and has brought it up with Collings several times. The dealer thinks since Collings is so consistent they reproduce everything that’s great and unfortunately things that are not particularly great in every guitar they build. And yes, they hear the rattle-type noise on Collings guitars too. They also think the naturally loud & clear Collings sound might bring it to light.

The solution for me? Ignore the occasional faint occasional noise because you don’t hear it while your focused on making music. It also happens VERY infrequently during the course of normal play. So how about your Collings? Do you have a similar condition?
Last edited by Haasome on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul

Hokiebob
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Location: Mint Hill, NC

Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1406Post Hokiebob
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:25 pm

Well of course I had to grab my 2000 D2H and hit that G note repeatedly with a variety of grips and a variety of attacks. No rattle or any other unwanted noise.
Bob

SWRM4
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Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1411Post SWRM4
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:00 pm

Yes I have experienced the exact same thing with my OM2G I bought in April. It's a very, very faint "vibration rattle" that emanates from the bridge area. My only realistic reasoning was maybe one of the string slots that holds the ball end of the string is just barely loose enough that it causes the rattle under a certain frequency, and given it is most pronounced with the G note on the low E string, thought the added heft of the low E string exacerbated it. I would be VERY interested if anyone else has this quirk and if anyone has correctly diagnosed it. Since my guitar is so new, I had planned to take it back to the dealer once it settled in to see if it would resolve itself. However, it has remained no mater what strings I change to put on the guitar, and taking extra care to seat the ball end of each string.

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Haasome
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Location: Massachusetts

Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1412Post Haasome
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:10 pm

SWRM4 wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:00 pm Yes I have experienced the exact same thing with my OM2G I bought in April. It's a very, very faint "vibration rattle" that emanates from the bridge area. My only realistic reasoning was maybe one of the string slots that holds the ball end of the string is just barely loose enough that it causes the rattle under a certain frequency, and given it is most pronounced with the G note on the low E string, thought the added heft of the low E string exacerbated it. I would be VERY interested if anyone else has this quirk and if anyone has correctly diagnosed it. Since my guitar is so new, I had planned to take it back to the dealer once it settled in to see if it would resolve itself. However, it has remained no mater what strings I change to put on the guitar, and taking extra care to seat the ball end of each string.
FWIW, a couple of Collings-playing friends I’ve reached out to hadn’t noticed it — checked out their guitars and discovered they have the same condition. One of them said playfully “thanks a lot for bringing that to my attention.” BTW, I have the same condition on 2 Collings OMs that I have been enjoying for over 5 years, but just noticed since finding it on my new C100. I’m starting to think this might be more widespread than just you, me, my dealer and a couple of friends. I have contacted Collings to share what I have experienced. No reply as of yet.
Paul

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elambo
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Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1413Post elambo
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:02 am

Out of curiosity, do you guys bend your strings near the ball end before inserting them into the bridge (not an uncommon practice)? Could it be that the bend is greater than the actual break angle once the ball end is inserted, and under heavy force it's vibrating against the bridge pins? An un-bent string would likely sit tight against the pin, but if an artificial bend is just right, I could imagine it rattling.

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Haasome
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Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1414Post Haasome
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:16 am

elambo wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:02 am Out of curiosity, do you guys bend your strings near the ball end before inserting them into the bridge (not an uncommon practice)? Could it be that the bend is greater than the actual break angle once the ball end is inserted, and under heavy force it's vibrating against the bridge pins? An un-bent string would likely sit tight against the pin, but if an artificial bend is just right, I could imagine it rattling.
I don’t on Collings because the string & pins fit so perfectly. I do bend for other guitars that have slotted pins to hold the string in place - with no rattle noise. That’s a very good thought though and something I’ll look more closely at. Do you have a theory why it might happen only on Low E if bending came into play?
Paul

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elambo
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Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1415Post elambo
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:11 am

Haasome wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:16 am Do you have a theory why it might happen only on Low E if bending came into play?
I hadn't thought much about it but I'd guess that it has something to do with the resonant frequency of a G chord.

Derek
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Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1416Post Derek
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:20 am

On the fret buzz which is most noticeable on the thicker wound sixth string but also occurs on other strings. Of course you would be hearing it as coming from the body of the guitar where the sound is amplified, but the source of the sound is right at the fret crown of the fretted note.

JohnB
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Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1417Post JohnB
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:23 am

So Paul, with some mild paranoia I just checked on my three Collings. No phantom rattle at all anywhere with the OM1A or the CJ35G. I do hear what you're hearing with my OM2G--BUT not on the third fret with a G chord. I hear it on the low E string when vigorously plucked open, a sort of vibration echo coming from the bridge area: pretty strange; not like any wolf tone I've had with other guitars, it just floats free. Since I've never heard it while playing or performing (the OM2G is my primary performance guitar) I'm choosing to pretend I never heard it.

Edit: Well, the phantom sound isn't the same as what you describe. It's really a kind of wolf tone that occurs also from the E on the second fret of the D string. The weather has been unseasonably humid the past week and I didn't check. Looks like a humidity issue with the fretboard swelling a bit. The guitar is now locked away in its case with Humidipaks.

Second edit: after a few days of the guitar kept in 50% humidity, I changed the strings and the rattle/wolf tone seems resolved. So, none of my Collings are producing the "idiosyncratic" sound, and all are sounding pretty sensational
Last edited by JohnB on Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Haasome
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Re: Collings Idiosyncratic sound

Post: # 1423Post Haasome
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Just to update — Mark Althans was kind enough to call me and is looking into it. Once again I’m reminded of why I love Collings & their commitment to customer satisfaction, design & details. As an aside, I’ve found the faint “rattle” sound is even more faint with medium gauge strings. So I’ll stick with those on the C100. Great guitar & im really enjoying this model.
Paul

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