Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Tremolo Arm
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:37 am
Real Name: Iassen

Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2624Post Tremolo Arm
Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:13 am

Hello, new forum member here

I am 47 and live in the UK. I pay in 4 bands - 2 soul, 1 rock and 1 acoustic duo.
For the duo, and for playing / composing at home, I've been thinking of getting a versatile, high end guitar.

I have a Gibson SJ-200, but I find that a bit dry for finger picking. Credit where it's due - it's very good for strumming, but it lacks overtones and lushness. Mainly due to the maple back and side the decay is extremely fast.

I've tried several Martins and actually bought (and returned) a J-40 and an 000-42. The J-40 had the sound I liked, but it was too big - physically and the top wasn't very attractive. The 000-42 was a beautiful instrument, but I found the sound a bit honky / boxy.
My style is 50% finger picking (with bare fingers) and 50% light strumming (with a soft pick). I like the sound of dreds for chords, but prefer the look of smaller guitars. If I am going to buy a dred, it must be sunburst or what Martin call ambertone as I find that gives the optical illusion that the body looks smaller and leaner (which is what I prefer).

I recently tried a Collings D2H and absolutely loved its tone, strings separation sound and feel. This guitar's G and D strings in particular really stood out in a way no other acoustic has. I almost bought it on the spot, but at £5200 ($6500) it was way over the budget I had set, so I decided I would rummage the internet to look for a good deal.

My questions are the following:I would appreciate a few pointers from the Collings owners / experts:
- Do all unbound Collings necks have that really shiny black strip on the side of the fingerboard ? I absolutely love that touch.
- How does the bound binding look on the bound necks - is it grained or uniform. Collings website describes that as ivoroid but is it on the white side or more of a cream/vintage hue?
- On the necks with 1" 3/4 nut, what is the neck width at the 12th fret? The website does not specify that.
- Is the difference between D2H and D3 models just cosmetic?
- I mentioned I liked the D2H - what other model should I consider for that tone? CJ? I do prefer rosewood for the back and sides.

Many thanks in advance
Last edited by Tremolo Arm on Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jackorion
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2625Post jackorion
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:08 am

Tremolo Arm wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:13 am Hello, new forum member here

I am 47 and live in the UK. I pay in a 4 bands - 2 soul, 1 rock and 1 acoustic duo.
For the duo, and for playing / composing at home, I've been thinking of getting a versatile, high end guitar.

I have a Gibson SJ-200, but I find that a bit dry for finger picking. Credit where it's due - it's very good for strumming, but it lacks overtone and lushness - mainly due to the maple back and side.

I've tried several Martins and actually bought (and returned) a J-40 and an 000-42. The J-40 had the sound I liked, but it was too big - physically and the top wasn't very attractive. The 000-42 was a beautiful instrument, but I found the sound a bit honky / boxy.
My style is 50% finger picking (with bare fingers) and 50% light strumming (with a soft pick). I like the sound of dreds for chords, but prefer the look of smaller guitars. If I am going to buy a dred, it must be sunburst or what Martin call ambertone as I find that gives the optical illusion that the body looks smaller and leaner (which is what I prefer).

I recently tried a Collings D2H and absolutely loved its tone, strings separation sound and feel. This guitar's G and D strings in particular really stood out in a way no other acoustic has. I almost bought it on the spot, but it was way over the budget I had set (£5200 = $6500), so I decided I would rummage the internet to look for a good deal.

My questions is are the following:
- Do all unbound Collings necks have that really shiny black fingerboard edge (where the position markers are)? I absolutely love that touch.
- How does the bound binding look on the bound necks - is it grained or straight. Also, is it white or cream/vintage?
- On the necks with 1" 3/4 nut, what is the neck width at the 12th fret?
- Is the difference between D2H and D3 just cosmetic?
- If I liked the D2H, what other model should I consider? CJ? I do prefer rosewood for the back and sides.

Many thanks in advance
Hey,

Welcome to the forum - glad to see someone else from the UK one here!

The first thing I will say is that Collings guitars are relatively rare in the UK, and the prices are significantly higher than in the States (both new and used) so keep that in mind if people chime in saying 'you can get a used D2H for $xxx'.

Is the sunburst D2H the one at Coda? If so those guys are top notch and aren't adverse to offering a good deal if they can - depends on how you're paying of course! I bought my first Collings from them (an OM2h vn ss that I've since moved on) and they were great to deal with.

The sunburst is quite a big upcharge (at least £700 I think?) so you should be able to save some money going for a non-sunburst...

To answer your questions:

- Do all unbound Collings necks have that really shiny black fingerboard edge (where the position markers are)? - Yes, the necks are all finished right to the edge of the fingerboard and they are all gloss

- How does the bound binding look on the bound necks - is it grained or straight. Also, is it white or cream/vintage? - If you're talking about D3 or the CW then it's bound in grained ivoroid, which is the same as the binding on the body

- On the necks with 1" 3/4 nut, what is the neck width at the 12th fret? Here's the neck spec charts:

https://www.collingsguitars.com/img/faq ... ptions.pdf

I can't find spacing fat the 12th fret, but they do mention the width of the fingerboard at the 9th fret on the FAQ page and on the individual guitar model pages ont eh site.

- Is the difference between D2H and D3 just cosmetic? I'm pretty sure that's the case

- If I liked the D2H, what other model should I consider? CJ? I do prefer rosewood for the back and sides. - Tricky, nothing sounds like a dread!

I don't know where you are in the UK but I bought my second (and current) Collings, an OM2hT, from Project Music in Exeter - again they are good guys to deal with and made me a good deal considering the px's I was doing with them. They have a natural top D2h with 1 3/4 nut in stock according to their website at a lot less than the SB one at Coda.

I keep an eye on eBay/Reverb etc etc for good deals on Collings in the UK - to be honest they don't seem to hold their value that well compared to a Martin for example so you might get lucky with one at a good price, but then again there's never loads of them for sale and you don't see that many of them out and about so you could be waiting a while for the right deal to come up... If that D2H SB hits all the right boxes and there's some way of wrangling a deal you might save yourself a long wait and be able to get on with playing!

Tremolo Arm
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:37 am
Real Name: Iassen

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2626Post Tremolo Arm
Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:02 pm

Hey! Thank you so much for your reply!

You must be related to Sherlock Holmes as you were right about the location of the D2H I tried. Indeed I was at Coda earlier this week and tried that exact guitar. It is a stunning instrument - visually and sonically. I compared it to a Martin D-35 and a bunch of Taylors they had there and the Collings was head and shoulders above all of them. I made Coda (what I thought was) a good offer and indeed used the Project Music example as a "lever" to help me "massage" the price, but they would not budge, saying that Project must have got theirs D2H a few years back when Collings prices were lower. I have no way of knowing what year the Project Music example is from.

I am a bit finicky about colours, so I know that even if I was to buy the one at Project Music, I would just not play it as often as I would play a SB. It may be silly, but that's the way I am. But more than a £1000 is a big difference for what is the same model...

So you have a Collings OM. How is it? Did you ever compare it to a Martin OM and if so, what differences in sound did you find? I assume the T stands for Torrified, in which case it probably has more of a played-in vibe to it?
I found the Martin OM great for fingerpicking but the chords sounded a bit boxy and "honky" for lack of a better word...

Scotsmac
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:26 pm

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2627Post Scotsmac
Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:47 pm

Hi Tremolo,

Another Collings player here from the UK/Scotland.
Jackorion has covered the points you raise very well and his advice in terms of UK Collings dealers is spot on. The bottom line is there are not a lot of Collings acoustics in the UK at this current time and it's likely that new stock that appears will be even more expensive as I don't think the nice sunburst D2H at Coda is at the new price.
The prices at Project are lower, I'm fairly certain they have been reduced recently, their DH2 looks a relative bargain but like you I like a sunburst finish and have the same sunburst on my OM2H bought from Coda last year, it was built to order by Collings took about 6 months, the price uplift for the sunburst is about £700.
I can vouch for Chris and his team at Coda, I have bought five Collings guitars from him over the last few years, his Collings stock in the last few months has went from 12 to 5 and Project Music's stock has also reduced significantly in recent months. So Collings stock in the UK is definitely low at this time.
The "t" refers to traditional, if you check the Collings site it will give you the details, includes a thinner finish, lighter build etc.
Good luck with your search, as always keep an eye on the second hand market, Gumtree etc.

Malc.

jackorion
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2628Post jackorion
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:17 pm

Tremolo Arm wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:02 pm Hey! Thank you so much for your reply!

You must be related to Sherlock Holmes as you were right about the location of the D2H I tried. Indeed I was at Coda earlier this week and tried that exact guitar. It is a stunning instrument - visually and sonically. I compared it to a Martin D-35 and a bunch of Taylors they had there and the Collings was head and shoulders above all of them. I made Coda (what I thought was) a good offer and indeed used the Project Music example as a "lever" to help me "massage" the price, but they would not budge, saying that Project must have got theirs D2H a few years back when Collings prices were lower. I have no way of knowing what year the Project Music example is from.

I am a bit finicky about colours, so I know that even if I was to buy the one at Project Music, I would just not play it as often as I would play a SB. It may be silly, but that's the way I am. But more than a £1000 is a big difference for what is the same model...

So you have a Collings OM. How is it? Did you ever compare it to a Martin OM and if so, what differences in sound did you find? I assume the T stands for Torrified, in which case it probably has more of a played-in vibe to it?
I found the Martin OM great for fingerpicking but the chords sounded a bit boxy and "honky" for lack of a better word...
Ha! Not Sherlock Holmes I'm afraid - just sad enough to spend a lot more time than I should on various guitar shop websites! To be fair to Coda I think their guitar is relative new and Collings have seen some pretty steep price hikes in UK over the last couple of years - even if the guitar at Project is 6 months old they might have got it at a cheaper price...

the T stands for 'Traditional' which is a series within the Collings lineup that was introduced a few years back (2016 I think?) where the guitars are all a bit more 'pre-war' in terms of spec - the big differences between the T models and Stds are lack of tongue brace, thinner all nitro finish (including the neck), protein glue construction, smaller bridgeplates, and overall lighter build/woods. The necks are also different, having a wider taper and more depth in the higher register (2020 models also have a different truss rod/steel bar arrangement more akin to a vintage style T-truss rod).

The general consensus seems to be that the Traditionals are more 'open' and 'warmer' than the Std Collings, with less 'hot' midrange and bit more emphasis on the fundamental. They are however still Collings and share the quick response and clarity of the Std line.

I actually have a Martin OM28v as my other guitar (it was my main guitar for nearly ten years until the Collings came along) so I think I'm quite well placed to describe the differences between my Martin and Collings (other comparisons may vary!).

To my ear the biggest difference between the Martin and the Collings is where the overtones and resonances sit - in the Martin I feel that the bass and the low mid-range generates a lot of overtones, whereas the upper-mids and treble are quite 'dry' (more fundamental).

With the Collings I feel it is the opposite - the bass and low mids are 'dryer' with more fundamental, and the upper mids and treble have more overtones. I don't subscribe to the idea that Collings are 'bright' or 'thin' (opinions you sometimes hear on umgf for example) but the Collings definitely has the potential for more 'cut' and clarity. I would actually describe the Martin treble tone as 'thin' when compared to the Collings - there seems to be more body behind the treble notes with the Collings to my ear.

One way I've described the difference between the guitars is that I sometimes feel the Martin tone extends beyond the low strings, but stops at the high strings, whereas the Collings tone stops at the low strings and extends beyond the highs, if that makes sense?

The Martin is a more 'comforting' tone in some ways - it has more bass in the playing position for sure and it's 'woodier' on the 5th and 6th string around the middle of the neck, but, as I've more recently been using a microphone for live gigs, I've come to realise that the Collings does have a good bass response, but it seems to throw it forward more rather than enveloping the player in low end. Also my Martin is ten years old and has chalked up thousands of playing hours, whereas the Collings is just two years old (though it's clocked some hours in that time as my main guitar both at home and at gigs).

I do love the Martin tone and, for some things, I prefer it - folksy strumming seems to sound a bit better on the Martin for example, and the extra low end resonance helps if I'm tuning down to C. However, the Collings has become my no1 and I feel that it can do the things my Martin can do well enough (particularly if you pay attention to technique) whereas my Martin can do what the Collings can.

Also, although my Martin is a well made guitar and, generally I find Martins to be good quality, the Collings build is on another level - I used to work in guitar retail and I review guitars for part of my living now and, though I set myself up for accusation of bias in the future by saying this, I've never seen 'production' guitars made as well as Collings are made.

That's probably more info than you needed and some of it's maybe not useful but hope some of it helps!

jackorion
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2629Post jackorion
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:22 pm

Scotsmac wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:47 pm Hi Tremolo,

Another Collings player here from the UK/Scotland.
Jackorion has covered the points you raise very well and his advice in terms of UK Collings dealers is spot on. The bottom line is there are not a lot of Collings acoustics in the UK at this current time and it's likely that new stock that appears will be even more expensive as I don't think the nice sunburst D2H at Coda is at the new price.
The prices at Project are lower, I'm fairly certain they have been reduced recently, their DH2 looks a relative bargain but like you I like a sunburst finish and have the same sunburst on my OM2H bought from Coda last year, it was built to order by Collings took about 6 months, the price uplift for the sunburst is about £700.
I can vouch for Chris and his team at Coda, I have bought five Collings guitars from him over the last few years, his Collings stock in the last few months has went from 12 to 5 and Project Music's stock has also reduced significantly in recent months. So Collings stock in the UK is definitely low at this time.
The "t" refers to traditional, if you check the Collings site it will give you the details, includes a thinner finish, lighter build etc.
Good luck with your search, as always keep an eye on the second hand market, Gumtree etc.

Malc.
Hey - sorry if my post reiterates some of your points - I must have been typing it when you were posting! I'd love a sunburst OM at some point - Colling sposted a dark vintage sunburst Dreadnaught on their instagram and I immediately thought "that's going on my custom spec dream list!"...

Scotsmac
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:26 pm

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2630Post Scotsmac
Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:16 pm

Hi

No problem, good advice re Collings and the UK market. I agree with your take on Martin OM's although I don't have one anymore just a couple of Collings ones, I prefer them.

Malc.

Tremolo Arm
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:37 am
Real Name: Iassen

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2632Post Tremolo Arm
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:02 pm

That's great advice, Malc and Jack. Thank you both!

Being predominantly an electric guitar player, I go through phases of A) wondering why I would need another acoustic (and an expensive one at that) if I already have a Gibson SJ-200, and B) trying to convince myself I need another acoustic just because I can afford it

If Collings don't hold their value well in the UK, I am wondering if on top of pure GAS, my desire to own one is also highly irrational But then again when did rationale and guitar ever feature in the same sentence, hey....?!

In my case this is all for recreation and who knows what the live music scene would look like in a few months... You both seem to echo what the guys at Coda told me - i.e. that Collings prices are going up and even at this breathtaking price it may actually be a good buy.
Hmmm - some more pondering to do...

jackorion
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2635Post jackorion
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:30 pm

Tremolo Arm wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:02 pm That's great advice, Malc and Jack. Thank you both!

Being predominantly an electric guitar player, I go through phases of A) wondering why I would need another acoustic (and an expensive one at that) if I already have a Gibson SJ-200, and B) trying to convince myself I need another acoustic just because I can afford it

If Collings don't hold their value well in the UK, I am wondering if on top of pure GAS, my desire to own one is also highly irrational But then again when did rationale and guitar ever feature in the same sentence, hey....?!

In my case this is all for recreation and who knows what the live music scene would look like in a few months... You both seem to echo what the guys at Coda told me - i.e. that Collings prices are going up and even at this breathtaking price it may actually be a good buy.
Hmmm - some more pondering to do...
Resale value is one of those things that can be important or not from person to person... I don't think Collings are as bad as some guitars when it comes to resale - as an indicator my OM2h ss vn was up for sale at £3579 when I bought it (I paid £3400 I think) in 2016. I sold it privately for £2750 last year and, although it was in good condition, it showed some obvious signs of use and play, I'd had a pickup installed and removed and then another one installed (so the endpin was drilled out and the saddle was shimmed), and the short scale made it a little less desirable than the regular scale length.

Admittedly a new one was over £4000 at the time so it looked like a good price, but, essentially, I only really lost the VAT on it over the three years of ownership...

Hokiebob
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:22 pm
Location: Mint Hill, NC

Re: Thinking of taking the proverbial plunge...

Post: # 2640Post Hokiebob
Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:44 pm

Not really prepared to discuss the market for high end guitars in GB but maybe something my grandfather taught me many years ago applies.
He was a successful business man and he told me that he knew he was successful when he could make it a policy in his personal life that if he wanted something he just went ahead and bought it.

When I was shopping for a guitar a number of years ago I was considering a number of guitars that cost less than a Collings. Then I went to a dealer and played a D2H. It was more expensive than
other guitars that I was considering and more expensive than the budget that I had set in my mind but the sound just got stuck in my head. My wife and I spent well over an hour in the shop without committing so we finally excused ourselves and went to a nearby cafe for lunch. While eating I don't think we even mentioned the guitar but it was certainly stuck in my head. I was caught in what is called paralysis by analysis as I considered all the + and -. Finally as we were waiting for the check my dear wife looked at me and said "You want it, don't you?" I told her "Yes". She said "Then lets go buy it." So we went back and I asked for a token discount just to feel good about my business acumen and the dealer accepted my offer.

10 years later I still have and love that guitar. Any consideration of resale value is moot as it will never be my concern.

As the great philosopher Yogi Berra said "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

Oliver Wendell Holmes had this to say "“Many people die with their music still in them. Too often it is because they are always getting ready to live. Before they know it time runs out.”

It sounds from your original post that you really want to buy this guitar and are seeking justification. My advice. Don't let time run out. Go get it.

Bob
Bob

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