Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

HogBack
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:21 pm

Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5048Post HogBack
Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:29 pm

I did a search and didn't find a thread dedicated to discussing baked tops, so I thought I would start one. How are people liking their baked top guitars now that they have had them for a while? All things being equal and realizing no two guitars are the same, how does a standard D1 differ from a standard D1 with a baked top? I might be getting a Collings soon, and due to lack of availability in my area I will likely have to buy online. In the past I have had a standard D1A and a standard D1 with Mahogany top. I love the balance and tone of Collings dreads and haven't ever played one that I couldn't be happy with as my only guitar. I'm just trying to get some info on the perceived differences in baked vs non baked tops. Thanks

Frank Sanns
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Real Name: Frank Sanns
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5050Post Frank Sanns
Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:45 pm

I am sure many will chime in on their preferences to bake or not to bake but let me offer some technical info on it (torrifaction, torrification) for what it is worth.

Baking a top to the degree that is being done in the industry today changes the wood sufficiently that it behaves like a new species of wood. That is, the change after baking is greater than all of the variability normally seen within a species. Choosing baked vs non baked is as big a change as asking for Sitka over Engelmann.

While you may start with Sitka, what you get out is changed. Not changed as in aging as they would like you to believe, but changed like using a totally new tone wood with its own unique properties.

The elasticity of baked woods are lower than the non-baked. This and other physical properties gives a more immediate attack but not really any more headroom. Baked also gives a more dry, fundamental tone as compared to the more lush and rounder sounding of non-baked wood.

It is going to come down to your own preference for type of response and sound. Like I said, treat it like a different top tone wood and see what you like.

pto
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Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5051Post pto
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:31 pm

great way of looking at it!

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Haasome
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Location: Massachusetts

Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5052Post Haasome
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:35 pm

That is a great way to express the influence of baking Frank.
Paul

JohnB
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Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5055Post JohnB
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:46 am

I also think Frank's analysis of the difference is extraordinarily valuable. It is really the first I've read or heard that succinctly describes what I hear.

I've had two Collings Dreads, my current D1AT is lightly baked. I've auditioned at length two other D1As, and what stands out for me is the relatively drier more succinct sound of the D1AT. The D1As were fuller, and if it makes sense, rounder sounding. I preferred--once I changed from medium to blue grass strings--the D1AT. As a singer I found it less overwhelming--less apt to sort of steal the song. But my choice is just the opposite with OMs. I prefer the rounder more complex sound of the unbaked tops with these. They seem to offer more tonal support and a richer background.

I do find the differences, if not prominent, relatively significant with the dreads: a little less so with the OMs.

jwills57
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Real Name: Jack Arthur Wills

Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5058Post jwills57
Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:25 am

I was always skeptical of baked-top guitars. I played a bunch of Martins back in the day when torrified tops first came out. I found them to be "frighteningly efficient" but not necessarily an improvement. Back then I liked the natural tops a bit better. Today I see an advantage to a baked-top, which seems to take the new guitar edge off, so maybe you don't have to wait that five or six years for your guitar to break in. I don't think it's necessarily a better sound, just an older sound. Also, since around twenty years ago when baked tops first came on the scene, I think the torrification process each manufacturer uses has improved tremendously, a result of a lot of experience, experimentation, and R and D. All the major acoustic guitar brands would not be using baked tops if they had any doubt at all about their longevity and stability and tonal profile.

JohnFrink
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5061Post JohnFrink
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:15 pm

After comparing a dozen OMs, three builders, Sitka and Adirondack, baked and unbaked, I prefer baked. Just my two cents.
Bourgeois OM CB HS, Collings OM1T, OM1Mh, OM3Mh, RainSong CH-OM-N2, Santa Cruz OM

armdog
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5063Post armdog
Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:24 pm

I really like both, baked and natural... I play rhymythic arpeggio songwriter and need both good rhythm that blends well with clear notes.

My 2008 CJmhA natural was red spruce stiff as they come for a few years and then gradually it just came into it's own. I considered letting it go a number of times but my better judgement said trust the journey you know it's there. It turned out great for the songwriter stuff and D1A loud for punch. sweet guitar

On the other hand, my 3yr old luthier built small jumbo (think SJ) has baked Carpathian spruce with sinker mahog that has all the bases covered but just enough diff to own both. (Euro spruce is great, my former D2HG was my fav dread I ever owned, but my old shoulder did the dreads in.)

I really appreciate Frank's analysis and I have a much better understanding going forward.

many thanks, bert

Greg Y
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Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5064Post Greg Y
Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:47 pm

I honestly have a hard time deciding. I had a Pre-War Guitar Co 000-18 with a torrified top that rode the middle ground.....fundamental tone, but not not super dry. At the same time I had an OM1aJL which gave more fundamental and dry tone. If I were to order a new guitar from Collings, I would likely spec it with a non-torrified top, but with the satin finish and no pore filler....& likely other "T" appointments.

Georgelange
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Real Name: George lange
Location: Ancaster, Canada

Re: Baked Vs Regular Sitka?

Post: # 5340Post Georgelange
Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:55 am

I like my OM1a-jl a lot too. It doesn’t need any torrefied top

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