Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

[dadgad6strings]

My OM1 has Waverly tuners with 16:1 ratio. Thinking about switching to the 21:1 version and wondering if anyone has tried them.
If so, what'd you think?

The obvious is better precision but are they smoother overall as well?

[West R Lee]

Man, I don't know. My 3 Collings guitars have Waverly 16:1, the standard Collings tuners, and they seem pretty precise, secure and fine tunable to me. I've changed a bunch of tuners through the years, including the tuners on my D2HA, but not due to function, or lack thereof, I changed them because I wanted the same 16:1 ratio in a Waverly gold engraved tuner. Having said that, anytime you change tuners, there is a real risk of stripping a threaded hole. Those screws are awful small. Personally, I wouldn't change tuners in order to change the ratio so slightly.



West

[West R Lee]

Man, I don't know. My 3 Collings guitars have Waverly 16:1, the standard Collings tuners, and they seem pretty precise, secure and fine tunable to me. I've changed a bunch of tuners through the years, including the tuners on my D2HA, but not due to function, or lack thereof, I changed them because I wanted the same 16:1 ratio in a Waverly gold engraved tuner. You'll notice that I definitely wasn't going to change the bushings, but the nickel bushings don't bother me in the least. Having said that, anytime you change tuners, there is a real risk of stripping a threaded hole in the headstock. Those screws are awful small. Personally, I wouldn't change tuners in order to change the ratio so slightly.



West

[dadgad6strings]

Some good points for sure. I do like the oval buttons a bit better and if the 21:1 ratios offered that option in ebony it would make it more plausible I suppose.

[Greg Y]

21:1 wouldn't necessarily be smoother. Part of the equation depends on the installation and if the tuner post is getting pulled forward under tension. As for the question of whether they're more precise.... you'll be turning the knob more and ultimately the tuning depends on your ability to hear the correct pitch,if you've used an accurate tuner, and the tensile strength of the string. The original Grover 12:1 used by Martin in the '30s are to this day still very capable of quick and accurate tuning and i have some that are smoother than new Waverlys.
BTW West, changing out the bushings is not a big deal. Collings only uses a drop of glue to keep them in place. A little heat applied to the bushing and the glue releases and the bushing pushes out easily from behind. I've changed many sets over the years without damage to the headstock overlay.