CJKA - Lacking Tone

[joe1871@att.net]

Hey All,

I have a CJKA that I bought mor4e than 20 years ago. This is a CJ (Custom Jumbo) that is fitted with gorgeous Koa back and sides, and an Adirondack top. It was the first high end guitar I ever owned. I have since been lucky enough to grab a couple of other gorgeous guitars. What is bothering me is the tone on the CJ is just not as clear nor as full as I would expect. I realize that Koa guitars are voiced differently. When I bought the Koa I was a little suspect of the beauty of the wood - thinking the money I was paying was going into the looks of the guitar. I raised the question with the sales person (I was young and inexperienced... I asked him to be gentle. .). I was not as impressed with the tone as I was with some of the other guitars I played, but I was assured it was just my lack of familiarity with Koa. Maybe it just needed to open up. I bought the CJ - and brought it home and played it for months - maybe a year, but I never got the "wow" that I have from my other Collings guitars. (I have a OM-2HE and an I35 Deluxe).

So here is my question - and it is pointed at you Koa players specifically. Do you find a type of string that sounds better? Do you like the Koa tone compared to others? Is the Koa tone substantially different from other types of guitars you may have? I realize a CJ is not primarily a fingerstyle guitar, but I am just talking about strumming or flatpicking tone. It just doesn't seem to cut it for me. Did I just get a dud?

Let me know what you think? I really appreciate your feedback.

Joe

[Frank Sanns]

The biggest contributing factor is the model of the guitar. It is a a slope shoulder type design. As such, it is more balanced and restrained than a dreadnaught.

Having owned a CJ Koa Adi, I can attest that they tend not to be as loud as a dred but they make up for it with more sparkle. Koa is a great wood and it should not sound muffled or muddy. You might have a tech look at the setup and get it tuned up for yourself as they are nice guitars. Again, they are not dreads or OM but something of their own.

[Slowlearner]

I’ve never owned a koa guitar so can’t comment on the tone. I had a similar experience with my first high end guitar though. I bought a guitar by a very well respected UK company. It was beautifully made and played very well but I just couldn’t bond with the tone. I kept hoping it would ‘open up’ but it didn’t happen and I eventually sold it and moved on.

I guess I learned that not all guitars from even reputable companies are great- at least for me. It took me a while to really understand what I want in a guitar. It wasn’t a dud exactly but just not right for me. If you’ve had the guitar 20 years maybe it’s just not your thing? Maybe someone else will love it- the koa and adi combination is, I’m sure, desirable. Koa is such a beautiful looking wood. I would definitely have it set up as that can make a real difference. Perhaps comparing it to other CJ’s might help make things clearer?

[Red Oak]

I’ve never owned a koa guitar so can’t comment on the tone. I had a similar experience with my first high end guitar though. I bought a guitar by a very well respected UK company. It was beautifully made and played very well but I just couldn’t bond with the tone. I kept hoping it would ‘open up’ but it didn’t happen and I eventually sold it and moved on.

I guess I learned that not all guitars from even reputable companies are great- at least for me. It took me a while to really understand what I want in a guitar. It wasn’t a dud exactly but just not right for me. If you’ve had the guitar 20 years maybe it’s just not your thing? Maybe someone else will love it- the koa and adi combination is, I’m sure, desirable. Koa is such a beautiful looking wood. I would definitely have it set up as that can make a real difference. Perhaps comparing it to other CJ’s might help make things clearer?

This is very good advice.

[007]

Is it Short or long scale?

[Flakyfoont]

Hi Joe. I'm left wondering about a few of your comments. I've owned quite a few Collings guitars since the late 90's and have had a few that didn't knock me out. I know now that some were probably not given the time to be worked in or even perhaps not adjusted to an optimal point to bring out their best, and then exchanged for another. (Shaking my head here.) ButI do like to try different models and tonewoods.
I'm pretty much now a Collings only buyer or trader- I favor the brand that highly and feel I know it pretty well. I've had Adirondack and found in a like-new guitar it can and will take its slow time to deliver. Do I keep it when it underwhelms somewhat or move it along? I've done that. You say you played your CJ for a good year after buying it with some doubt and remain unsatisfied after 20 yrs. It likely needs more play time. I own a Sitka OM2HK, 1999, which I traded a rosewood CW for. It's the Collings I've had the longest. Volume-wise, it's a bit low key, but it's sweetness and great tone are undeniable. That too took a little time. It's also the most amazing looking. I'm using the recommended Daddario EJ16 set.
I'd think about sending it to Collings with your thoughts and see if they can't make some adjustments to help it along.

[joe1871@att.net]

Hey All,

Thanks for the advice. I didnt mean to give anyone the idea that this CJ is not played - however it only gets about 5% of my playing time. I have never felt that acceptance of the tone that I do with some of my other guitars, Collings or others. I do think that before I give up on it completely, it would do it and me well to find a good luthier here in Delaware (I just relocated from San Francisco) and see what they can do for it and me.

I was hoping, but not actually expecting, that there was some underlying secret you Koa players have to getting the sound to come out. It sounds like lots of you would expect a nice Koa guitar to sound bright and articulate. I would too, but mine does not. I will try and get some pics and tone samples to follow up on this thread. I very much appreciate everyone’s help so far.

Joe

[JohnFrink]

I can recommend Dana Sutcliffe as a Delaware luthier; he's done superb setup work on several Collings for me.

Dana Sutcliffe
2311 Sconset St, Suite 2B
Wilmington, DE 18710
302-521-4215
danadsrinc <at> aol <dot> com

Tell him I sent you.

John

[uponamouse]

The only consideration I might add is whether humidity has caused the top to swell and the tone to deaden, particularly now that you mention you had lived in San Francisco. I bought my D2H when I lived there and then moved to the Monterey Bay. (Still here 25 years later.) The marine humidity caused the top to swell (slightly) and raised the action, and the tone noticeably deadened, perhaps about 5 years in? I started placing a Humidipak brand silica gel package in the case or wrapped (in an old sock ) and suspended in the sound hole when the guitar wasn't in use. That made a noticeable improvement—action returned to where it was, the tone came back to life. The Humidpaks are reusable (by baking them for 3 hours in the oven). They're most often found at gun supply stores.

[Georgelange]

I have never played a Collings guitar that didn’t have tone. Try some brighter sounding strings maybe. I like the Curt Mangen phosphor bronze or the Woodtone strings. I have a CJ with German too and mahogany and these strings do wonders for me