Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

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dadgad6strings
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:48 pm

Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 5628Post dadgad6strings
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:00 pm

My OM1 has Waverly tuners with 16:1 ratio. Thinking about switching to the 21:1 version and wondering if anyone has tried them.
If so, what'd you think?

The obvious is better precision but are they smoother overall as well?

West R Lee
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Real Name: J. D. Brown

Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 5631Post West R Lee
Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:26 pm

Man, I don't know. My 3 Collings guitars have Waverly 16:1, the standard Collings tuners, and they seem pretty precise, secure and fine tunable to me. I've changed a bunch of tuners through the years, including the tuners on my D2HA, but not due to function, or lack thereof, I changed them because I wanted the same 16:1 ratio in a Waverly gold engraved tuner. Having said that, anytime you change tuners, there is a real risk of stripping a threaded hole. Those screws are awful small. Personally, I wouldn't change tuners in order to change the ratio so slightly.

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West

West R Lee
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Real Name: J. D. Brown

Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 5632Post West R Lee
Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:28 pm

Man, I don't know. My 3 Collings guitars have Waverly 16:1, the standard Collings tuners, and they seem pretty precise, secure and fine tunable to me. I've changed a bunch of tuners through the years, including the tuners on my D2HA, but not due to function, or lack thereof, I changed them because I wanted the same 16:1 ratio in a Waverly gold engraved tuner. You'll notice that I definitely wasn't going to change the bushings, but the nickel bushings don't bother me in the least. Having said that, anytime you change tuners, there is a real risk of stripping a threaded hole in the headstock. Those screws are awful small. Personally, I wouldn't change tuners in order to change the ratio so slightly.

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West

dadgad6strings
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Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 5633Post dadgad6strings
Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:56 pm

Some good points for sure. I do like the oval buttons a bit better and if the 21:1 ratios offered that option in ebony it would make it more plausible I suppose.

Greg Y
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Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 5648Post Greg Y
Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:38 pm

21:1 wouldn't necessarily be smoother. Part of the equation depends on the installation and if the tuner post is getting pulled forward under tension. As for the question of whether they're more precise.... you'll be turning the knob more and ultimately the tuning depends on your ability to hear the correct pitch,if you've used an accurate tuner, and the tensile strength of the string. The original Grover 12:1 used by Martin in the '30s are to this day still very capable of quick and accurate tuning and i have some that are smoother than new Waverlys.
BTW West, changing out the bushings is not a big deal. Collings only uses a drop of glue to keep them in place. A little heat applied to the bushing and the glue releases and the bushing pushes out easily from behind. I've changed many sets over the years without damage to the headstock overlay.

dadgad6strings
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Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 6162Post dadgad6strings
Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:40 pm

I decided to switch out the 16:1 ratio Waverly tuners on my Collings OM1 mc. The 16:1 ratio worked fine but since I play in various tunings I find the added precision a plus.
Very easy, direct replacement.

Red Oak
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Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 6166Post Red Oak
Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:26 am

Greg Y wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:38 pm 21:1 wouldn't necessarily be smoother. Part of the equation depends on the installation and if the tuner post is getting pulled forward under tension. As for the question of whether they're more precise.... you'll be turning the knob more and ultimately the tuning depends on your ability to hear the correct pitch,if you've used an accurate tuner, and the tensile strength of the string. The original Grover 12:1 used by Martin in the '30s are to this day still very capable of quick and accurate tuning and i have some that are smoother than new Waverlys.
BTW West, changing out the bushings is not a big deal. Collings only uses a drop of glue to keep them in place. A little heat applied to the bushing and the glue releases and the bushing pushes out easily from behind. I've changed many sets over the years without damage to the headstock overlay.
Great observation and insight. Thanks for posting.

dadgad6strings
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:48 pm

Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 6170Post dadgad6strings
Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:34 pm

Actually, the bushings aren't an issue at all if you're relacing them with the same finish. There isn't a need to replace the bushings. I just left the original ones in and everything worked perfectly.

Red Oak
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Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 6194Post Red Oak
Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:08 pm

dadgad6strings wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:34 pm Actually, the bushings aren't an issue at all if you're relacing them with the same finish. There isn't a need to replace the bushings. I just left the original ones in and everything worked perfectly.
This kind of shared experience is why our site is 2nd to one. Thanks for posting.

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DenverSteve
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Re: Has anyone switched to Waverly 21:1 tuners?

Post: # 6281Post DenverSteve
Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:58 pm

Nope. I have no issues with any of the factory tuning machines. I've seen too many oops moments, from DIY'ers and pros, when changing things unnecessarily leaving scratches around tuner bushings or on the back of headstocks. If one ever fails, I'll replace it, or them.
Shalom, Steve
A Few World-Class Tools..........

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