The Collings Forum

Good evening all, looking to pull the trigger on a 2017 D1 torrified with addy braces. Has anyone out there got one? I also am looking at a 2015 D1A..... hard to compare the two, but don’t let that stop you!
Thanks. Charlie

Torreifed Sitka tops are always a treat for the ears but so is Adirondack. I like my Adirondack topped D1A very much. It is up to you what you like the most. Torrified could crack easier too because the wood has been artificially aged. That is something to think about

Georgelange wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 2:20 am Torreifed Sitka tops are always a treat for the ears but so is Adirondack. I like my Adirondack topped D1A very much. It is up to you what you like the most. Torrified could crack easier too because the wood has been artificially aged. That is something to think about

I think it does a disservice to the builders and the guitar-buying community to say that "Torrified could crack easier...." without providing factual evidence to support that claim. Do you know of any torrefied guitar tops that have cracked? Can you direct us to any statements by luthiers describing their experience with torrefied tops that have cracked?

I monitor the acoustic guitar market pretty close and I can not say that I have been seeing any cracked torrefied tops. IME

Cracking in torrefied tops is not a simple answer. It is a little like saying speed kills. Define speed. Define torrefied is the same deal.

Torrefaction is a process of heating wood up to begin some decomposition. It is not the same as aging. As such, the degree of decomposition is dependent upon how high a temperature it is heated to and for how long. Also what the moisture and oxygen contents are doing the baking but we have to assume it is done right. Some builders like to cook the tops to the point of turning quite brown while others stop short of that and have a lighter shade of decomposition products.

Picking a middle grade of torrefaction, it will have better resistance to changes in humidity and will be more resistant to cracking. This is due to less expansion and contraction during humidity cycles during the life of the guitar. This was the primary reason for wood to be heated in the first place long before it was used on guitars. The price to pay is a little less impact resistance if it did happen to get a ding in the top. The less elastic torrefied wood cannot give as much before it will split. As long as you are not using the guitar in a rough environment, it is a non issue. Zero.

However, for those that take the torrefaction process too far. You have a chance of a crack even before you even build the guitar as they can become quite brittle. Torrefaction is one of those things that a little can be good but it can go south if you push too far. I am happy to say that all of the major builders that I know of have ratcheted back the amount of torrefaction (time and temperature) that they are using. Be staying off the brink, cracks and glue joint failures are pretty much a non-issue now.

I don’t know about cracking but I definitely do not like the sound of the Collings baked tops. I’d go with non-backed red spruce or Sitka.

They sound way too dry (bordering on brittle sounding) to my ears.

Ironically, I actually think the baked tops on the traditional series guitars make the guitar sound less warm, especially for strumming and rhythm playing.

I very well respected Collings dealer agrees.

Just my take on the baked Collings I’ve played. Other makers baked tops like PreWar sound incredibly warm.

Acoustic Dave wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:34 am ...I actually think the baked tops on the traditional series guitars make the guitar sound less warm, especially for strumming and rhythm playing.

Just goes to show you that personal preference is the key to a happy guitar choice. My favorite Collings is an OM1T with baked Sitka top; I've owned several of this model, both baked and natural, and my strong preference is for what I perceive is the increased warmth of the baked Sitka versions. YMhasobviouslyV.

Acoustic Dave wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:34 am I don’t know about cracking but I definitely do not like the sound of the Collings baked tops. I’d go with non-backed red spruce or Sitka.

They sound way too dry (bordering on brittle sounding) to my ears.

Dave's experience is not mine at all. I have one unbaked Collings, a D1AT, and it is certainly not dry or brittle; and I've never had that response to any of the five or six other baked Collings I've heard. Are the baked tops an improvement? Don't know. I'm as happy with my unbaked ones as I am with my splendid D1AT.

JohnB wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:36 pm

Acoustic Dave wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:34 am I don’t know about cracking but I definitely do not like the sound of the Collings baked tops. I’d go with non-backed red spruce or Sitka.

They sound way too dry (bordering on brittle sounding) to my ears.

Dave's experience is not mine at all. I have one unbaked Collings, a D1AT, and it is certainly not dry or brittle; and I've never had that response to any of the five or six other baked Collings I've heard. Are the baked tops an improvement? Don't know. I'm as happy with my unbaked ones as I am with my splendid D1AT.

Well stated! Thanks for posting!!

I appreciate different perspectives. But I wanted to share mine based on owning and playing many Collings guitars.

Sometimes we use different words to describe sound or our perceptions of sound. Always challenging. I’m a singer songwriter and appreciate a warm (less in-your-face) sounding guitar to support vocals. Though It flies in the face of some of the marketing hype and conventional wisdom, all things being equal, the non-baked Traditional’s are warmer and less in-your-face than the baked versions of the same guitar. This is most apparent when banging out open chords/strumming. The baked versions are definitely drier but I don’t believe they achieve anything closer to vintage sounding guitar than the non-baked traditionals.

Consequently I would definitely try a baked top compared to a non-baked before you rely on the conventional wisdom. Let your ears and instincts be the judge.